More on the Five Towns Kosher Chicken "Scandal"
The Jewish Star, the paper that broke last week's story of possible mislabeling of kosher chickens by an area kosher supermarket, has published a follow-up story in this week's edition. They answer many of the questions about the affair that still remained up in the air last week, but some still have not been answered to my satisfaction by the parties involved.
Fine. So the solution, according to the Vaad? To prohibit the relabeling of repackaged products by Gourmet Glatt. And as I've personally witnessed, all chicken in the refrigerator cases in Gourmet Glatt now bears the label "Fresh Chicken", where it used to bear a company brand name. So will Empire chicken still be carried by Gourmet Glatt, and at the higher prices that the product generally demands? Well, yes. Check out this quote:
The whole "solution" to the problem just doesn't seem to add up.
First, some background on what exactly was going on at Gourmet Glatt Emporium:So, as implied but not confirmed in the paper last week, it seems that Gourmet Glatt was misleading customers into purchasing non-Empire products at Empire (i.e., more expensive) prices. Was it deliberate? Last week's article echoes Gourmet Glatt's claim of a "clerical error", this week's article doesn't come out and make a judgement one way or the other. Word I've gotten from a reliable source involved in comunity Kashrut affairs? It is believed the mislabeling was deliberate.
Two weeks ago a consumer, whom Empire would not identify, purchased two Cornish hens at Gourmet Glatt. Packaged together on one tray under the Empire name, neither bore a plumba, or identifying metal tag, which apparently sparked the customer's concern.
One bird was consumed, the other was returned to Empire. The womanreportedly told an Empire employee who went to her home that when she
inquired at Gourmet Glatt she was told 'that's how the chickens came
from Empire.'
Empire does not package Cornish hens for sale in that manner. Rosenbaum said that an analysis by the company revealed that "the way this particular bird was cut was done by a machine that we do not own."The bird weighed one-and-a-half-pounds, and Empire hasn't sold Cornish hens at that weight in eight months.
Empire notified the Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Rockaway, which made a surprise inspection at Gourmet Glatt. Acting on information from Empire, specifically about the weight of available Empire Cornish hens, Rabbi Eisen said he personally discovered more than one mislabeled chicken in the display case. He said there was no way to know if any others had been sold prior to the inspection.
Fine. So the solution, according to the Vaad? To prohibit the relabeling of repackaged products by Gourmet Glatt. And as I've personally witnessed, all chicken in the refrigerator cases in Gourmet Glatt now bears the label "Fresh Chicken", where it used to bear a company brand name. So will Empire chicken still be carried by Gourmet Glatt, and at the higher prices that the product generally demands? Well, yes. Check out this quote:
Rabbi Yosef Eisen of the Vaad Hakashrus of the Five Towns and Rockaway defended the new labeling guidelines on the grounds that there are limits to what is possible. "We'd have to hire an army to police people's mouths," he said.Okay, so let me get this straight. Gourmet Glatt, due to being discovered as having been mislabeling chicken - whether due to fraud or a "clerical error" - is no longer allowed to label their repackaged chicken. The Vaad's representative defends the new policy, explaining that the store can't be policed. However, he then goes on to explain that consumers should have no problem determining which chicken is Empire brand, by reading an unwritten code - which is the per/pound pricing of the chicken. So Gourmet Glatt somehow can't be trusted to actually print the Empire name on its packaging, yet they can be trusted to charge Empire prices. Wasn't this, as the Vaad has taken great pains to inform us, all about charging proces that were higher than appropriate and NOT about Kashrut problems? If that's the case, to the extent that the Vaad does not feel it can police Gourmet Glatt to label their chickens properly, then why are we to assume that anything will change regarding the proper pricing of the product?
...Rabbi Eisen said that labels on meat and poultry at Gourmet Glatt would continue to reflect different prices per pound as charged by different suppliers. "Consumers - when it comes specifically to provisions such as meat and poultry - know the range of what it is going to cost," he said. He believes customers who pick up a significantly more expensive package of chicken will either understand that they are buying Empire, which charge anywhere from 5 to 30 cents more per-pound than competitors, or, Rabbi Eisen believes, they will ask.
The whole "solution" to the problem just doesn't seem to add up.
posted by orthomom at 8:34 AM
117 Comments:
I have heard from good sources that the Vaad met last week and they are forcing the sale of the store within 4 months
This Vaad policy is crazy. It allows GG to charge what ever they want. They can put any (hopefully kosher) chicken in a package and charge the highest price inducing the customer to assume that they are buying the Empire (as the price is the highest in the store) when they are only getting "fresh chicken"
This Vaad policy is crazy. It allows GG to charge what ever they want. They can put any (hopefully kosher) chicken in a package and charge the highest price inducing the customer to assume that they are buying the Empire (as the price is the highest in the store) when they are only getting "fresh chicken"
As if the kosher consumer is not paying enough now.
It is so nice when our co-religionists steal from us.
If the Kosher community was smart, we would organize a complete boyccott of all meat and poultry products until prices dropped to a reasonable level.
Rabbi Eisen does not have to "police people's ,mouths" - what he has to do is "police" the stores he is paid exorbitant fees to supervise. Not such an insurmountable task, presumably. GG is no busier than many other kosher butcher shops. As a previous poster aptly noted, if the stores can manage to distinguish between a french roast and a shoulder roast, surely they can distinguish between meet being shipped from Empire as opposed to Aaron's. This is not a question of inability to conform to proper standards, rather a complete apathy towards the consumer. As for me, I will take my standard $400-600 weekly grocery order to a store that can take the time to label my meat correctly.
At least now we're having the right conversation. This is about getting ripped off. And we don't have to stand for it!
There's an old joke about the Jewish guy who receives a telegram from a relative that says: Start worrying. Details Will Follow.
As opposed to the Jewish Star, which presented a considerably conflagatory story about the Gourmet Glatt chicken mislabeling mess with deft and concern for all concerned parties, take a look at how the nincompoops at The Jewish Press broach a potential kashrus issue. I have pants on my kitchen counter smarter than the cretins who comprise the Jewish Press' editorial board :
Kosher Consumer Alert
By: Editorial Board
Wednesday, October 4, 2006
As per our recent reports and editorials, kosher consumers are up in arms over the recent Monsey kashrus scandal. Now we learn of startling new allegations – allegations that come to our attention too close to press time for full investigation but which we feel duty-bound to share with our readers.
Names have not yet been provided to us, only alleged practices. But we have been told that some kosher food merchants have been advised by their kashrus supervisors that they may switch kosher labels on kosher food in order to accommodate customers desiring a particular shechita – as long as the product has some reliable hashgacha.
Individuals who rely on a particular hashgacha are advised not to base their decision exclusively on the label affixed to the meat or poultry. It behooves kosher consumers to be more proactive – to forgo a passive and deferential posture – when it comes to what they eat and feed their families
In other words, "We heard something but have no details. Somehing happened but we cannot verify what. Whatever allegedly happened cannot be confirmed. We're telling to be more careful but cannot tell you why, where, how, or when. Above all, everything we're telling cannot be confirmed. All we can say is start worrying."
Can the Jewish Press be any more ridiculous? The answer may be 'no', but it might be just a matter of time that the company that sells them their newsprint will demand they stop claiming to be a NEWSPAPER as in doing so they besmirch the credibility of their legitimate newsprint customers.
part of the problem was that GG cut out the plumbas from the chicken which clearly label where they came from. The new packaging leaves the plumbas as the only mark identifying where the chicken came from, thus nobody will be fooled by an outer label. The poliucy of repackaging is to have the plumba visible in the package (go see it for yourself) so that people can buy whatever brand they want knowing full well what they are buying.
The vaad is acting responsibly, and some of the information here is correct while some is not. The vaad is correcting both the potential yoreh deah and evident choshen mishpat problems in a way that will minimize the amount of damage done to the community.
The poliucy of repackaging is to have the plumba visible in the package (go see it for yourself) so that people can buy whatever brand they want knowing full well what they are buying.
That is simply misinformed. When one buys chicken parts, there is rarely, if ever a plumba - it would be difficult to get a package of dark meat chicken with one attached as the plumbas are attched under the wing. So your statement doesn't hold true when you are buying anything but a whole chicken or cornish hen.
If I were to buy a package of chicken bottoms at GG today, all I would be able to surmise is that I am buying "Fresh Chicken". Trust me. I HAVE gone to see for myself.
I was used to work for big butcher. Out of a box of 28 or so chickens from Empire or Vineland three or four chickens would come in without plumbas but they would be in a double sealed box from Empire or Vineland. These plumbas are not affixed so well. What is a buthcher to do? Empire does not want to take them back, shipping is expensive but a good 10-15% are sans plumbas. Also once your order quarters or bottoms or tops you cannot keept the plubas on they are usuallyatached to the wing.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE CHICKENS IS A SCANDEL MADE UP BY RABBI EISEN TO DESTROY THE CREDIBILITY OF GOURMET GLATT. THROUGH MY THOROUGH INVESTIGATION GOURMET GLATT THE MASGIACH STATES THAT THE "CUSTOMER WHO COMPLAINED TO RABBI EISEN WAS NEVER PRODUCED ,THE PRODUCT NEVER PRODUCED TO THEM AT THE VAAD MEETING -ONLY ALLEGATIONS . EISEN IS ON A WITCHHUNT THAT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. A CONCERNED CUSTOMER
I here the loshon hora spread in shuls this holiday by some. Gourmet Glatt has attentive staff and owners that are visible and hard working. I know there are two Mashgichim temidi fulltime and the world renowned Rabbi Askenazy running the meat operations day to day.Rabbi Eisen the Rav of the 5 twns Vaad does not even know about what a correct triebering(deviening) looks like . Please call for yourself . I feel comfortable buying at gourmet glatt and will continue supporting them because Rabbi Askenazy has the best standards of kashruth. In addition anyone could push the wrong code for empire or vineland on their scales.Has anybody ever dailed the wrong phone number before? I have .
Maybe I'm missng something but the logic escapes me - I'm suppose to trust the kashrut of a store that can't consistantly lable their chickens correctly?
More to the point - you're so busy you can't lable a name correctly but you can press the correct price code, so I'm not paying "empire prices" for some other brand. Or are we just playing the "kosher version" of bait and switch? Consumer fraud anyone?
Perhaps someone should check the manufacture ,in this case Empire Poultry.I have purchased many times from GG and other Five Towns Supermarkets Empire SEALED CASES of Empire 3 and 3 1/2 lb chickens and have personally witnessed out of 24-28 birds that six or sometimes more DO NOT have plumbas attached. I love shopping at GG and will continue to.The management is friendly and the staff is well trained and respectful. If the Vaad of the Five Towns, in particular Rabbi Eisen as personal issue with GG, he should resign. I have spoken to many other store owners and the majority feel he is not stable. If you think Rabbi Chait couldn't lead this Vaad with a "Higher Standard" think again...This community made a grave mistake by allowing Rabbi Chait to be thrown away like dirt after some 15 years of service to a "wet behind the ears" bully, Shame to Vaad and our community Rabbi's.
RABBI EISEN WAS IN CHARGE OF KASHRUTH UNDER KEHILLA IN WHICH HE FORMED @ KOSHER SPOT AND THE OTHER RESTAURANT OWNED BY THEM. EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW FOR SIX MONTHS OF TREIF MEAT HE NEVER DISCLOSED IT . HE ONLY THOUGHT OF HIS REPUTATION AT STATE.IN ADDITION THE DEAR RABBI CHAIT FORMER RAV OF 5TWONS WAS DISCRACED AND PUSHED OUT OF HIS JOB BY RABBI EISEN-ASK YOUR RABBI YOURSELF -THEY ALL FEEL TERRIBLE EXCEPT FOR REISMAN-EISENS CROONY.EISEN IS TRYING TO EARN HIS CREDITS AGAIN IN DESTROYING GOURMET GLATT FOR NO REASON-ONE KNOTCH ON HIS BELT TO BRAG ABOUT -WHOSE NEXT? SUPPORT GOURMET GLATT
12:09 AM
Now, this is just stupid. For the majority who don't have a horse in this race, why do we need to read all of the UPPERCASE endorsements of Gourmet Glatt, as though they are being written off the cuff by people with no affiliation to or interest in GG.
Gimme a break! The purpose of this forum is for open discussion of the issues - not to hear Eisen-bashing from the management. Can one of the newly arrived pro-GG people explain why Rabbi Eisen purportedly has a vendetta against GG? Because the only reason I would think he might have a vendetta against them is that the management gives him a hard time when he's trying to do his job.
Since, I presume I am a lot older that the average blogger here, let me recall that as a youngster in Queens in the mid-50s, I would usually accompany my late mother to the Jamaica slaughterhouse where we would pick our own chicken (after my Mom inspected it outside in all around), watch as it was schechted, dumped over a barrel for the blood to seep out and then plucked and cleaned and given to us to take home. There, she would place it on the draining board, salt it and by Shabbat, there would be kosher meat on the table. And we weren't, at that time, "an Orthodox observant family" but just pashuteh yidden keeping kosher at home. A few years later, we began to have delivered fresh chickens from Lakewood and I recall being amazed that after all we went through, by Thursday, the door bell would ring at the apartment and there was the deliverer with our meat in a plastic bag with no more mess, stress or whatever.
And now look what is happening.
I believe the kashruth-labeling is the achrious of two mashgichim of GG .The owners should not to be blamed if the mashgichim do not do their jobs.Replace the mashgichim then.
I think we need some refreshing of the facts here. The mislabeling was done more than once, and wasn't just caught by R Eisen, but by Empire's own inspectors. So to imply that this is all a huge vendetta by R Eisen to close down GG for no reason whatsoever that has to do with Kashrut is silly. Is it possible that the Vaad has been looking for an excuse to close down GG? Perhaps. But I have received enough information from involved parties to believe that it's about stunts like charging higher prices for a lower-priced item than about his personal feelings.
Gourmet Glatt was caught mispreresenting a lower-priced product as a higher-priced one. Now, I am not a Kashrut inspector, so I do not knowwhat the ramifications shold be, I would probably feel comfortable buying there if I received some reassurance that procedures have changed in a significant way. But to the contrary, the new relabeling policy - or lack thereof - just shows me that the Vaad is basically throwing in the towel on trying to police GG's labeling. What can that mean? Goumet Glatt can under no circumstances be trusted to relabel mean properly?
Want to talk about what stinks? Sorry, but it aint the way GG's being treeated. I personally think they're being let off the hook.
" Anonymous said...
I believe the kashruth-labeling is the achrious of two mashgichim of GG .The owners should not to be blamed if the mashgichim do not do their jobs.Replace the mashgichim then. "
the full time mashgiach is a part owner of GG. there goes that theory
Look before you leap...to a poor conclusion. As a customer of Gourmet Glatt for over 10 years I am appalled at the way they have been vilified. I have purchased poultry at many of the Vaad-supervised markets and most are missing tags. Even the cases that are sealed have 5-7 chickens that are missing the plumba. If the chicken in the case was marked "chop meat" would this even be an issue? Personally, I would rather buy my meat and groceries at a store that is cleaner that the hospitals around here! Why doesn't the Vaad address the issue of cleanliness?? Some of the stores that the Vaad supervises are absolutely FILTHY! I don't find the prices on chicken any higher at Gourmet Glatt than at Brachs or Supersol (so dirty I would not ever set foot in there).Maybe its just Empire charging a higher price for the extra feathers you get with every chicken!
It is true that the achrious is on the mashgichim. I know for a fact that the two full time mashgichim at Gourmet glatt are employees of the Vaad. One is my cousin. Mistakes happen-everywhere-as long as human beings are the ones oeverseeing. I will continue to shop at Gourmet because my cousin assures me that the kashrus there is impeccable.
"THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE CHICKENS IS A SCANDEL MADE UP BY RABBI EISEN TO DESTROY THE CREDIBILITY OF GOURMET GLATT. THROUGH MY THOROUGH INVESTIGATION GOURMET GLATT THE MASGIACH STATES THAT THE "CUSTOMER WHO COMPLAINED TO RABBI EISEN WAS NEVER PRODUCED ,THE PRODUCT NEVER PRODUCED TO THEM AT THE VAAD MEETING -ONLY ALLEGATIONS . EISEN IS ON A WITCHHUNT THAT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. A CONCERNED CUSTOMER"
there were weapns of mass destruction. they were removed from iraq by soeone who wanted to make the bush adminitration look bad. There was another killer oj simpson was framed. nixon did not order the breakin at the watergate, it was somoene who wanted to make him look bad. the nazis were following orders and the tooth fairy exists.
I'd like to know who pays the masgiach ? Maybe the entire system needs to be changed for all stores in the Five Towns.
All the problems (price and Kashrut) could be solved if there was a concerted boycott by the consumers of all "kosher" meat and chicken.
It is time to stop the tyranny of the suppliers, store owners and mashgichim.
Boycott Now.
SO WHAT IS THIS
Renewed Activity Seen at Suspected North Korea Test Sites, U.S. Intelligence Says
I THINK THE 5 TOWNS JEWISH TIMES EXPLAINS IT BEST THIS WEEK WHEN THEY SAY THAT KASRUTH AT THE END OF THE DAY IS ABOUT TRUST FIRST AND FOREMOST....GG VIOLATED THAT TRUST....
they'd be right if this had anytinhg to do with kashrus. It doesn't have anything to do with kashrus.
A quote from Rav Herschel Schachter of a Halachik principle. There is a debate of whether or not one can be a kosher witness on a business matter if one is honest in business but does not keep ritual laws-but everyone agrees that one who cheats in business matters can't be a witness even in ritual matters.
i, too, have been a customer of GG for many years. i have never seen a cleaner, more well run business. as a mom of 3 with one on the way, i love the delivery people and the atmosphere. i know some of the Vaad Rabbis and are shocked that they would vilify this store based on Loshon hora.. I, and many of my friends, will ocntinue to patronize GG as long as they continue to provide the service they do. I, also believe there is more to this story. Have any Kashrus Laws really been violated? Have they failed Kosher inspections? Any Answers out there?
anon, what does the cleanliness of the store have to do with kashrus? "i know some of the Vaad Rabbis and are shocked that they would vilify this store based on Loshon hora." Did you actually read the articles? This isnt about l"h, its about the store being caught overpricing items red-handed. you may like the store, and their delivery people. but how can you make that the basis for ignoring the very real loss of neemanus here?
the more i hear of this story the less i like. i agree there is more to it. and i dont think it shines a positive light on GG.
also, when you ask about kosher violations in the past, the vaad had previously found GG to be storing hometz in an inpproporiate way over last pesach.
In another string, someone wrote: I spoke to the mashgiach @ gg and he told me it was not a mistake of taking more money for one chicken company over another. He even went so far as to say that sometimes they give more expensive substitutes when they run out of stock of a advertised special.To me that good business ethics.
WHOOO, this con't be happening, Rabbi Eisen clearly said that the way to determine the manufacturer was by the per pound price ["he then goes on to explain that consumers should have no problem determining which chicken is Empire brand, by reading an unwritten code - which is the per/pound pricing of the chicken"]
I have a simple solution, GG can no longer sell chicken. Maybe water too, how about soad and ketchup. This is becoming crazy.
why is the story changing now from Kashrus adherence to "price - gouging" If the prices are so out of line with the other stores, GG would have to lower prices to compete.. Is the Vaad trying to get GG on other issues since the one of Kashrus has been negated? Lets look into motives here... Why are we allowing someone to tell us where to shop...if Kashrus is not the issue?
well, you say price gouging that wasnt quite the story. they went through the trouble of mislabeling non-empire chicken as empire chicken to collect empires higher prices. you say this has no relevance to kashrus adherence. i say that a store owner who cant be trusted to label products in an honest way has some serious trust issues.
There have been kashrus problems there in the past (not to the level of monsey but infractions nontheless) such as the aforementioned incident where they kept stuff without passover certification over pesach to pickle their meats, and the store telling sephardic Jews that the meat is Beis Yosef when it is not...
The bottom line is that the vaad is taking care of whatever issues there are so that people can continue to shop in the stores that they feel most comfortable in. Whatever restrictions are being placed on the owner (losing his keys, selling within a few months) should not have a major impact on the kosher consumer.
I wanted to do some investigation on my own. I went to see the masgiach @ GG who has been incharge for many years.He showed me the ingredients for the pesach pickling which came in small bags and labeled clearly kosher for passover by continental seasoning .I am confused were are this misinformation coming from.
"Anonymous said...
I wanted to do some investigation on my own. I went to see the masgiach @ GG who has been incharge for many years.He showed me the ingredients for the pesach pickling which came in small bags and labeled clearly kosher for passover by continental seasoning .I am confused were are this misinformation coming from. "
I wanted to see if my son did well on his Gemara test. He showed me his gemara test from last year, clearly marked with a 100%. I figured that was enough to assume that he did well on this year's test.
How to you people actually post this tripe? Don't you realize you come off as either idiots or GG's owners?
EARTH TO EVERY IDIOT WHO SELECTIVELY REFUSES TO READ THE PARTS OF THE POST THAT SAY THIS IS NOT A KASHRUS ISSUE:
it is not a kashrus issue. Reading is fundamental. Get in the practice of reading before commenting. It makes everyone's visit to Orthomom that much more pleasant.
Thank you.
it is not a kashrus issue. Reading is fundamental. Get in the practice of reading before commenting. It makes everyone's visit to Orthomom that much more pleasant.
but
a store owner who cant be trusted to label products in an honest way has some serious trust issues.
RECONCILE PLEASE
"a store owner who cant be trusted to label products in an honest way has some serious trust issues. "
Well, yes. Absoutely yes. Noetheless, to discuss this matter in the context of a kashris issue is to unecessarily and irresponsibly ratchet up the hysteria, and based on some of the comments here, for clearly suspicious reasons.
In discussing any issue, it is essential...ESSENTIAL....to first clearly and definitively idetify what the issue is before people can start taking pot shot assumptions as for solutions.
There is too mu ch ignornt speculation and issue churning for intelligent discourse to occur here, or anywhere. The matter needs to be framed accurately before anyone here can move forward.
And to do that, it must clearly be noted that the entire issue of over the ethics of labeling....and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH KASHRUS!
it must clearly be noted that the entire issue of over the ethics of labeling....and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH KASHRUS!
So then this is a non-religious consumer affiaris issue. Why is Eisen and Resiman involved (sorry Rabbi Eisen and Rabbi Reisman)
The reason they are involved, is because if the owner cannot be trusted in businees, he cannot be trusted in kashrus, either. And don't bring me RABBI ASHKENAZI - he is a partner in GG, so therefore HE CANNOT BE TRUSTED EITHER. When GG asked the Vaad to give keys to a certain employee, they agreed, with the condition that a letter certifying that the employee was Shomer Shabbos was received from his rabbi. The letter from the Rabbi stated that "testimony was given that XXX is a Shomer Shabbos". When the rabbi was asked who gave the testimony, he said "RABBI ASHKENAZI" In Halacha, that is called "Nogayah B'Dovor"
TALK ABOUT THE FOX GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE!!
If GG could re-package ANY kind of chicken without telling their customers, (maybe I am stupid and want only cheaper chicken, don't do me favors and give me expensive chicken),then there is a problem. Whether they did any harm or sinned is irrelevant, the bottom line is THEY MISLEAD.
AND THAT IS CHEATING.
ONCE A CHEAT, ALWAYS A CHEAT.
Well, rabbi reisman is involved because he smells controversy and notoriety and cannot resist sticking his nose into the fray.
Rabbi Eisen is involved because he is the head of the vaad and has the responsibility and authority to investigate any issue pertaining to a store the vaad supervises to ascertain there is no question about kashrus.
Are you satisfied with that answer or will your moronic, transparent agenda result in yet more specious, loaded questions?
"Anonymous said...
The reason they are involved.......AND THAT IS CHEATING.
ONCE A CHEAT, ALWAYS A CHEAT."
...and while we're on the subject of moronic, transparent agendas...
I purchased Tuv Taam blintzes advertised @ Brachs during the nine days for 2.99 pkg.When I got home I realized they were pesachdik. I called the management and asked if they had any others that were chometzdik, they replied "sorry that's all we have. In response to the above comment "they misled and that is cheating.Once a cheat always a cheat. Sure Brachs advertisement was misleading but I wont go to far and call them cheaters-more like savvy business people.
If Rabbi Askenazy is not to be trusted because he is an owner then why do you trust Yankie Brack or Mr. Garber they are also owners, indeed aren't all the stores owned by their owners? Is Wok Tov no good because there is an owner. That is so stupid. Do you really think GG or Supersol go around mislabling items that have plumbas. Maybe they made a mistake, so did Tylenol and other companies they are not all thieves. Obviously you like ot believe in conspiracies. Do you know how much chickens are sold each week? Thousands , so what is they make a 1% mistake. Take it back every merchant including GG or Brachs will give you an exchange. Grow up?
Are you satisfied with that answer or will your moronic, transparent agenda result in yet more specious, loaded questions?
My agenda, keep the mafia and talaban far away. If this is an Consumer Affairs Issue then Rabbi Eisen has no business (after he made such a determination). Of course there are issues of business ethics that are nogah to kashrut so maybe there is a VAAD isue, but this mafia/talaban mantality (ie comeing in and setting 1 standard for GG and another for Brachs etc) is what I am against. A vaad should have 1 standard, otherwise it is a Mafia.
kolakavod well said!!!
Enough is enough. Time to stop all this talk and focus on this joyous week!!, Enjoy life, I enjoy GG and was in there today, again I believe the best managed Supermarket in town,if you lose GG you can guarantee yourself higher prices and less selection.Time to move on, if it's not Kashruth related let it be handled by the state if necessary.
"if it's not Kashruth related let it be handled by the state if necessary-"
So halacha is limited to kashrut-a perversion of halacha. Here again the writer doesn't believe it anyway-I assume the Vaad would not give a hechsher to a strip club.
So business ethics are irrelevant-I hope not.
"A vaad should have 1 standard, otherwise it is a Mafia. "
I agree with the statement-that does not mean I am stating that the Vaad holds different businesses to a different standards-but if it does the charge is an accurate one.
"Nogayah B'Dovor"
Avery important concept-which I have a feeling gets ignored. For example do Rabbonim on the Vaad recuse themselves and not give opinions on hashgachot involvimg members of their schuls-etc.
I don't know -I am not accusing anyone of anything I don't really know the parties in question-to the best of my knowledge I've never met or would I recognize Rabbi Eisen in the street-so my comments are based on hypothetical procedural questions.
a few of these comments are too painfully misinformed to ignore.
"Still Wonderin' said...
Well, rabbi reisman is involved because he smells controversy and notoriety and cannot resist sticking his nose into the fray."
Rabbi reisman is not "involved" in any way I can see, aside from speaking to his own kehilla regarding his thougghts on GG. but nice potshot, still wondering. guess you couldnt pass up an opprtunity.
"Once a cheat always a cheat. Sure Brachs advertisement was misleading but I wont go to far and call them cheaters-more like savvy business people."
Just to confirm, are you comparing this advertising (whoch seems perfectly legit to me) to a store deliberately mislabeling lower priced chickens to get a higher price? because if you are, thats a funny comparison.
I assume the Vaad would not give a hechsher to a strip club.
So business ethics are irrelevant-I hope not.
Having determined that the possible Kashrut issue was not kashrut related doesa not = a religous orginization condoning porn. What if a VAAD store sold food to a strip club, would the VADD have any more jurisdiction over that then a consumer affairs issue ?? I think not. The VAAD should be concerned with what food come in and out. Making sure that the store does not sell improper food. End of story. If the store wants to sully its reputation by selling cheap items as more expensive ones, or catering a strip club, that is for them to decide, and for the store to suffer the consequences in the pocket book. But the VAAD is a business too, what would the VAAD do to a store that was 100% compliant, but could not pay the vig, i mean the monthly fee to the VAAD?? SHUT THEM DOWN.
To all stop the bickering shop Brachs,Supersol,Gourmet Glatt for they are under the Vaad of the 5towns
And all subject to the same shakedown
To all stop the bickering shop Brachs,Supersol,Gourmet Glatt for they are under the Vaad of the 5towns
I have every intention of shopping at the stop with the best quality for the best price, and in fact shop around at all 3 for the best price/quality, irrespective of what Rabbi Reisman says, irrespdective of the fact that a prominant MO Rabbi is alleged to have privately said the same thing as RR, and irrespective of the fact that the VAAD overstepped here. The real story is the potential for retail fraud, and there are "HIGHER" authorities then the VAAD to deal with that.
i do believe that rabbi eisen is making this all up. i work for a local caterer under his hashgocha. after the monsey incident, he specifically told me that he will be looking for someone to drag down, so that he may look good before all the rabbonim.
he is no good.
ask him what happned under his watch in flatbush?? the answer, non kosher food.
get rid of rabbi eisen.
get the old vaa of 5 towns back.
let the far rockaway people go do their own thing. dont bring down the five towns.
everybody should please ask rabbi eisen and rabbi reisman to move back to brooklyn. stop treiffing up our beuitiful community.
if our local shul rabbis had any balls, the would stop paying the vaad tax.we should all stop paying our vaad dues to our shuls now.
grow up and grow a pair of balls.
there a famous doctor from yilc, a past president of that shul, he was right all along. go ask him.
down with the vaad of the five towns and rockaway.
and yes to our new vaad:
the vaad of the 5 towns.
"if our local shul rabbis had any balls, the would stop paying the vaad tax.we should all stop paying our vaad dues to our shuls now.
grow up and grow a pair of balls.
there a famous doctor from yilc, a past president of that shul, he was right all along. go ask him."
I don't know who "a famous doctor from yilc, a past president of that shul," is but does he/she ask the Rav of yilc =assuming he supports the Vaad why he does?
"we should all stop paying our vaad dues to our shuls now."
Not attacking the Vaad but why does a Vaad that has many hechsherim in a close vicinity require a subsidy why doesn't it subsidize the eruvim, mikvaot etc. I don't know-someone explain
are from far rockaway??
the vaad right know wants to stipulate how the workers dress behind the counters. they also want to determine how we dress as consumers. sound familiar?
thats what the taliban did in afghanistan.
the vaad=terrorist orginization.
weshould put a border up along 878
kepp the far rockawaypeople and the reismans and eisens on the queens side. keep nassau clean and kosher. vote for a new and pure
vaad of the 5 towns.
they also want to determine how we dress as consumers
Explian please
This is ridiculous. The last few comments have been trying desparately to turn the topic away from the clear problem at hand. The problem is that GG was CHEATING THEIR CUSTOMERS. And to all those who say it isn;'t a Vaad issue but a consumer affairs issue, WRONG. This is all about Kashrut. I know people who buy only Bais Yosef Shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who buy only KAJ shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who refuse to buy Chabad shechita. They have been wronged by GG. This has as much to do with Kashrut as the time that GG used Chometz on Pesacdh.
The comments are so clearly aimed at turning the debate away from GG's trangressions by trying to turmn the heat up on the Vaad and anyone else that it is painfully clear that they are being written by people extremely partisan to GG.
Let's not be stupid here. We are not schoolchildren who can willfully suspend our disbelief. Orthomom may not think this is a scandal. But i think she is wrong.
GG didn't just price gouge. they lied to their customers about vital kashrut information.
peeople. Don't act like lemmings here.
I know people who buy only Bais Yosef Shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who buy only KAJ shechita. They have been wronged by GG. I know people who refuse to buy Chabad shechita. They have been wronged by GG. This has as much to do with Kashrut as the time that GG used Chometz on Pesacdh.
AND SHEIKH EISEN MADE IT BETTER?? NOW WE DONT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT CHICKEN WE ARE BUYING.
1 VAAD, 1 STANDARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"
AND SHEIKH EISEN MADE IT BETTER?? NOW WE DONT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT CHICKEN WE ARE BUYING."
How stupid. Of course it's not good. But at least I'm not being lied to. This is a really dumb discussion. You are sayimng that not labeling is as bad as lying on the labels? You are either dumb, gullible, or one of GG's owners if you expect that argument to resonate.
Can you guys please pick fake names? all of the anons are getting confusing.
YOU cant build a business upon lies only upon upon good business practices. As a local steady customer in gg I see a busy store doing all things right.These accusations just dont seem to add up.
As a person privee to information from the Vaad there was no chometz found on pesach @GG it was a different store!
All of these pro GG comments look pretty suspect. I can't imagine there are customers loyal enough to sound like advertisments for GG.
And for those who claim to be "privee" to the vaad info, you are wrong. Gg uncovered their chometz on the last day of chol hamoed last year.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
"
AND SHEIKH EISEN MADE IT BETTER?? NOW WE DONT HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT CHICKEN WE ARE BUYING."
How stupid. Of course it's not good. But at least I'm not being lied to. This is a really dumb discussion. You are sayimng that not labeling is as bad as lying on the labels? You are either dumb, gullible, or one of GG's owners if you expect that argument to resonate.
I WANT 1 STANDARD. IT IS NOT DUMB OR STUPID TO WANT TO KNOW WHAT I AM BUYING AT ALL STORES. FOR ALI EISEN TO SAY LOOK AT THE PRICE TO DETERMINE THE MANUFACTURER IS A COP OUT. THEY SHOULD SAY WHOSE CHICKEN THEY ARE AND IF GG IS SO STUPID AS TO MISLABEL IT AGAIN THE FEET WILL DO THE WALKING. WHAT IS DUMB AND GULIABLE ARE THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE TALIBAN WITHOUT THINKING.
We need a revolt against the corrupt local kashuras agency. What if they lift the hash-ga-cha and people still buy there. As far as branding is concerned,if the package says Perdue, Ballpark or Empire, I want the product to match the lable. Could you imagine Kleins Ice Creme in a Haggan Daz container?
revolt now.
get rid of eisen and reisman.
they are destroying our good community.
lets all chip in and buy them house in flatbush. thats were they belong.
written by proud 5 towns resident.
This is nuts. To the anonymous commenter calling R Eisen and R Reisman the taliban. Do you mean to say that theyn are TOO strict? And that's supposed to make me upset and think they are ruining our community? After what just happened in Monsey? Does your comment about buying them a house in Flatbush mean that they are to strict for you?
Well, good. People like you can go eat at the 2nd avenue deli. Enjoy your kosher-style food. I'm just happy to have the kahrut taliban in charge if it means the standards will stay strict.
Do you mean to say that theyn are TOO strict?
No i mean that they are not consistant with their chumreas. 1 store has 1 standard, another a different standard.
MY MANTRA IS ---
1 VAAD. 1 STANDARD.
BTW THe flatbush comment was a different blogger. I believe Rabbi Eisen already lives in Faltbush.
This whole story is a mess. Why can't we get some facts?
This whole story is a mess. Why can't we get some facts?
EXACTLY. LET THE TALIBAN COME CLEAN. NOTHING IS BETTER THEN LITTLE SUNLIGHT TO CLEAN UP A MESS.
Is the VAAD a charity? I could not find a 990??
aries2756 said ...
"No one has the right to take the keys away from an establishment's owner. That is pure and simple humiliating tactics. The fact that they would comply with this ruling just goes to show how cooperative this family has been and is willing to be, but are we the consumers and members of this community willing to stand by and have this happen to one of our favorite stores?
You made some good points initially and even came across as somewhat level headed and objective - that is - until I got to the above quoted statement.
That statement is actually dumber that all of the previous ones. Why should anyone be appalled that the Vaad would take away the keys from an establishment's owner? Would you like us to believe this is an ego trip for the vaad or it's leadership. You're more than entitled to defend the GG owners, but you cross the line when you try to make an objective argument and then round it off with such biased stupidity.
We are living in the shadow of the most egregious violation of kashrus standards and consumer confidence in kashrus oversight that anyone can remember. It was perpetrated by an individual who was held in the highest regard by everyone in his community. And your response to this is an attempt to rally people in support of "one of our favorite stores"?!
Who cares if GG is clean or well-run or even if it's "one of our favorite stores"? SO WAS SHEVACH MEATS! And the character of its proprietor was almost certainly perceived to be loftier than that of the GG owners. Obviously, there is no comparison between the owners of the two stores or the reliability of the two stores, but the point is - Desperate times call for desperate measures. Most people would rather see the vaad clamp down wherever they see fit than be left worrying about an "incident" in our area.
And as much as you'd like us to believe that the Vaad is just out to get GG for no good reason, most of us don't have any horse in this race, don't have an agenda here and are not conspiracy theorists, so you'll have to come up with some credible evidence that Vaad is out of line here, if you want anyone to be convinced. Otherwise, they have a long-standing reputation of maintaing pretty high standards that we've all grown to depend on.
And if it's true that the Vaad has demanded that GG be sold within a given period of time, then you have even more explaining to do, because that certainly isn't a position the vaad would take without grave concerns.
the earlier comment about the proposed forced sale of GG is a slap in the face to all jews who came to america looking for the freedom to worship and work as they please... Who is the Vaad to order the sale of a business that has operated in this country for several decades? Does the name Hitler ring a bell for anyone? remember nazi germany when hitler forced the closing of jewish businesses? Both my parents are Holocaust survivors who live in Brooklyn.. They cannot believe the audacity of the Vaad if this is, in fact, what they stated they wanted to do. in America, we all have to right to shop and worship where and how we please. since when did the Vaad Take over our lives and the livelihood of others.. Wake Up 5 towns.
first to the anon who said go eat at the 2nd ave deli. get your facts straigh, they closed down due to rent hikes. there food was kosher, but they operated on shabbos, which brings about other issues in halacha.
about the vaad, they are a for-profit organization. stop giving them money.
the vaad acts totaly irresponsibly: some stores have mashgiachs and some dont. look into it, i did. its very unfare.
close the vaad down. stop having all these little no name hashgachas open up so we the hard working men and women of the five towns (not far rockaway) can support there families in far rockaway or brooklyn. there kids could rub the bench on our money, while they tell us what to do. the dont evan thank us.
get rid of the taliband
oasam=reisman
hussein=eisen
bring in the ou, ok or kof-k. bring in a stabke true hashgacha that we can all trust.
a proud 5 towns resident.
"
Anonymous said...
the earlier comment about the proposed forced sale of GG is a slap in the face to all jews who came to america looking for the freedom to worship and work as they please... Who is the Vaad to order the sale of a business that has operated in this country for several decades? Does the name Hitler ring a bell for anyone? remember nazi germany when hitler forced the closing of jewish businesses? Both my parents are Holocaust survivors who live in Brooklyn.. They cannot believe the audacity of the Vaad if this is, in fact, what they stated they wanted to do. in America, we all have to right to shop and worship where and how we please. since when did the Vaad Take over our lives and the livelihood of others.. Wake Up 5 towns. "
of all the stupid comments here (and there have been tons) this is hands down the stupidest. i will explain slowly. if GG were to want to give up their hasgacha from the vaad, the vadd would have no control over forcing GG to sell their store. the vaad isnt forcing their high standards on GG, unless GG wants their supervision. if GG would want to give up the vaads hasgacha and get it from soemone else, they are welcome to, and the vaad wouldnt give a fig whether they sold their store or not. but being under the vaad hasgacha just makes good business sense for them.
you can tell your parents that they can calm down. they are getting the story all wrong from their ignorant child.
perhaps the most recent "anonymous" should actually attend college or grad school and learn how to write english properly. once again this forum attracts idiots who have no idea of what is really going on with the Vaad. Please keep comments in this forum from becoming attacks!
let me explain how the vaad is run:
1 part time secretary who is never around. i think she just got out of high school approximatly 4 years ago.
1 asst. director. mr. hess. hes not a rabbi yet. he is about 23 years old and learns in far rockaway. he is also hardly there, or in the 5 towns area. no prevois kashrus or food bussiness experience. the restaruants, stores and caterers teach him what to do. you can not learn all this from a book.
and the famous rabbi eisen. he gets over $120,000 and is never around. he is always in brooklyn. call check for your self. we are paying his salary for him to slap our community in the face. we should hire local people who are capable and support us.
then there are a lot of part time mashgichim. most under the age of 30. they get a minimal salary and are all paid by the merchants directly. so who do you think they really answer to. the ones who pay them?? i think so..
and they all get cash. thats against the law if they dont claim it. you think any one is claiming the cash.
i know first hand. there is no disuting this.
kosher consumer if your really a lawyer, look into this.
arrest eisen now.
"Ok, I sent an email to the head of the Five Towns Shul List requesting that Rabbi Eisen and the Vaad be investigated. I suggest that everyone does the same."
You are either delusional or seriously misled. What does the Five Towns Shul List have to do with the vaad and why would they want to participate in your witchhunt? It's still very clear that you have some ulterior motive in defeding GG and you have an axe to grind with Rabbi Eisen. Because anyone who considers these issues objectively does not arrive at the same conclusions as you, and is certainly not driven to accuse Rabbi Eisen of the ill will that you describe.
While no one here has been presented with all the facts, there is little reason to suspect that the vaad "cooked" this all up for the wrong reasons. When there's smoke, there's reason to be concerned that there's fire. Although I know nothing first hand, my logical and objective conclusion from everything that I've heard and read is that GG has in the past been unresponsive and marginally uncooperative with regard to requests, demands, and/or suggestionsi by the vaad. You may not like the vaad or agree with everything they request, demand or suggest, but that is how kashrus agencies operate, and there is no way for them to do their job correctly without throwing their weight around a little bitt. No one has been talking about an uprising by other store owners, and there haven't been too many complaints voiced by other establishments under the vaad's supervision. In fact, considering that the vaad has almost never pulled its hechsher from anyone it's reasonable to assume that they haven't been as tough as they could be with store owners - and possibly for the wrong reason.
But if GG has ever been the least bit unresponsive or uncooperative with the vaad to the extent that the vaad feels comfortable and confident taking away their keys and asking them to sell the store, the objective conclusion is that there is some cause for concern about the store's ownership/management - rather than concluding that the vaad is "shaking them down" or flexing their muscles without any justification.
aries2756,
If you insist that everyone come clean and sign their names to their anonymous comments, you should probably be the one to start
the Vaad would not close a successful business because they charge several thousand dollars a year for "protection". I have also been told by a reputable source that GG has been told to sell their business to a very interested party ... Supersol. if anyone else finds this situation amusing.... please let me know... supersol has its own share of problems...just not as documented becouse of personal affiliations in town.... in addition, fellow five towners...hasnt this issue of GG been beaten to death... I guess we have nothing better to do with our lives but continue l"h.
BRAVO. GREAT POST
i, too, feel this was a great post. this individual finally makes some sense of all this nonsense.. the others should be ashamed of themselves for the L"H. know the facts, then make your own decision without hurting others. Bravo!!
Anonymous said...
i, too, feel this was a great post. this individual finally makes some sense of all this nonsense.. the others should be ashamed of themselves for the L"H. know the facts, then make your own decision without hurting others. Bravo!!
And putting those with an agenda in thier place.
1 VAAD, 1 STANDARD
What's an "online name", and how is that more credible than "anonymous"?
"Ok, I sent an email to the head of the Five Towns Shul List requesting that Rabbi Eisen and the Vaad be investigated. I suggest that everyone does the same."
You are either delusional or seriously misled. What does the Five Towns Shul List have to do with the vaad and why would they want to participate in your witchhunt? It's still very clear that you have some ulterior motive in defeding GG and you have an axe to grind with Rabbi Eisen. Because anyone who considers these issues objectively does not arrive at the same conclusions as you, and is certainly not driven to accuse Rabbi Eisen of the ill will that you describe.
While no one here has been presented with all the facts, there is little reason to suspect that the vaad "cooked" this all up for the wrong reasons. When there's smoke, there's reason to be concerned that there's fire. Although I know nothing first hand, my logical and objective conclusion from everything that I've heard and read is that GG has in the past been unresponsive and marginally uncooperative with regard to requests, demands, and/or suggestionsi by the vaad. You may not like the vaad or agree with everything they request, demand or suggest, but that is how kashrus agencies operate, and there is no way for them to do their job correctly without throwing their weight around a little bitt. No one has been talking about an uprising by other store owners, and there haven't been too many complaints voiced by other establishments under the vaad's supervision. In fact, considering that the vaad has almost never pulled its hechsher from anyone it's reasonable to assume that they haven't been as tough as they could be with store owners - and possibly for the wrong reason.
But if GG has ever been the least bit unresponsive or uncooperative with the vaad to the extent that the vaad feels comfortable and confident taking away their keys and asking them to sell the store, the objective conclusion is that there is some cause for concern about the store's ownership/management - rather than concluding that the vaad is "shaking them down" or flexing their muscles without any justification.
3:52 PM
Response to your comments. Are you in this communtiy long enough to remember King David and Rabbi Eisen stopping a party function, because of his new power hungry approach when he began his career here, nearly putting King David out of business? Do you remember the Rabbi Eisnen "Witch Hunt" seeking and creating a public "loshon Horah" about respected business owners in our community?, do you remember shul's pulling out and stop supporting the Vaad and the Vaad almost going broke? Do you remember how are Rabbi's closed there eye's when Rabbi Chait, a true "pure person" was made into a dish rag by our wonderful Rabbi Eisen. I am not proud of any of the above. It is time to stop this disgusting trend, wake up,I think our driver is sleeping at the wheel.
Why is everyone coming home from shul saying that their rabbi suggested that the congregants buy their meat elsewhere?
How is it so questionable whether a person is shomer shabbos?
1 VAAD, 1 STANDARD
Were have you been for the last two years. Rabbi Reisman gives his separate supervision to about 15 stores (including Brachs and Supersol). Does anyone know if charges or does he do gratis
Rabbi Reisman gives his separate supervision to about 15 stores (including Brachs and Supersol
SO GG IS ON HIS LIST BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO PAY??
interesting!!!!! so GG can get Rabbi Reisman's OK (HAHA) if they pay for it? how is Rabbi reisman's supervision done? does he nikkur? is he present for deliveries. I am curious?
Is seems logical that the pair of hasgachas The Vaad and Rov Kravitz would make GG a place to patronize again.
I think dual certification is a great idea!! why wasnt this done before? i feel better now knowing there are Two to watch over what I buy...thanks
i feel better now knowing there are Two to watch over what I buy
But is this necessary??
no, it is not necessary, however, I have been told by the rabbi on the premises that it was done to make the consumers (us) more secure after the LH spoken during Tishrei. They also now have a website to show all customers they have nothing to hide....how much more can we ask for??? Blood??
They also now have a website to show all customers they have nothing to hide..
Site address please??
Believe me the owners are ganivs!! They will do what ever it takes to make extra money!! I wouldnt trust them if you paid me!!
I am telling you the blogs defending GG are the owners themselves having access to this website and writing their own stories!! They are not withstanding people of the community!! They are not religious people. They do not keep kosher and one of the siblings is married to a non jew.
Believe me the owners are ganivs!! They will do what ever it takes to make extra money!! I wouldnt trust them if you paid me!!
I wouldn't pay you and I wouldn't believe you. BTW, what kind of business are you in? What are the rules of business again? Are you in business to make money or to give it away? Go back to Business class 101 and GET REAL! And while your at it grow up and stop whining, if you can't afford to shop there go to Kosher World.
I am telling you the blogs defending GG are the owners themselves having access to this website and writing their own stories!! They are not withstanding people of the community!! They are not religious people. They do not keep kosher and one of the siblings is married to a non jew.
And what religion to you adhere to spreading L"H and being Motzi Shem Rah? You are very orthodox and very committed to Torah and Mitzvos no doubt. Anyone wish to argue this point?
ALL OF YOU PEOPLE DONT HAVE CLUE AS TO WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.
THE VAAD IS MADE UP OF ALL THE RABBIS IN THE COMMUNITY
AND NOT RABBI EISEN.
SO IF THE THE VAAD TOOK AWAY THE
THE KASHRAS OF GOURMET GLATT
IT WAS YOUR RABBI IN ALL OF YOUR SHULS THAT YOU ALL BELONG TO
SO IF YOU RESPECT YOUR LOCAL ORTHODOX RABBIS THEN YOU ALL
WOULD GET A LIFE AND STOP SPECULATING WHAT WENT ON AND FIND
ANOTHER PLACE TO SHOP AND LAY THIS TO REST
When kosher supervision starts being just that and not a business we will all doing ourselves a favor. The agencies all of them can start paying the mashgichim themselves a respectable salary with benefits. At this junction, they are looking out to protect the all-old boys club their own. They see no problem in any store for example a Pizza store opening doors away from one another one G-d forbid some competition should happen to their own business what a one sided view. What do they fear if not their own self-esteem?
If there is no kashrut problem, then it is about turf and kashrut control in the area. After all the Jewish week reported that GG brought in an outside mashgiach and this did not sit well with the local Vaad. It is all about money. Kashrut has become 150 billion business. For shame.
When ‘dayanim’, ‘rabbis’ and false ‘mekubalim’ use the Torah for their own power and commercial profit, this behaviour is abhorrent.
No other ‘rabbi’ will ever act against another ‘rabbi’ - even when he knows his colleague is clearly desecrating the Torah. Each rabbi is only worried about losing his own position.
Therefore, the ‘rabbi’, ‘dayyan’ or false ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) will never effect justice. And he will never truly stand for the Torah or the Honour of Hashem. His pocket will always prevail.
The Torah must never be used for commercial gain and profit. Amm israel can only be lead by those who have the necessary love and respect of Hashem and the Torah.
Any man who chooses to be a ‘rabbi’ (‘true teacher’ of Torah) or a ‘dayan’ (‘judge’), or a ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) should be doing so Voluntarily. Out of his pure love for Hashem and the Torah. And his Ahavat Yisrael.
If he refuses to do community work voluntarily, and wants and accepts payment for everything he does, such a man should not be heading a community. He should get a job and earn a living. He can collect milk bottles or clean the windows. That is what is called ‘earning a living’.
Torah is learned, studied and taught: out of Love. Voluntarily. But the ‘rabbis’ have turned the Torah into their ‘Profession’, from which they earn money.
We are commanded in the Shema to:
‘LOVE Hashem, your G-d, WITH ALL YOUR HEART, and with all your soul and with all your might.’
‘VE’AHAVTA et Hashem Elokecha BECHOL LEVAVECHA uvechol nafshecha uvechol meodecha.’ (Devarim, Vaethanan, 6:4-5)
Is the ordinary man or woman PAID to pray to Hashem, or to say some words of Torah? No. Has veshalom! But the rabbis are. These men can give ‘lovely’ shiurim that they have rehearsed. But they would not give a shiur without being paid for it.
The true hachamim and rabbis of old, all actually worked at proper jobs and professions.
Wake up! Even a little child could have worked this out. These salaried men can never truly stand for the Torah, because in a case of conflict between a correct course of action according to the Torah, and the rabbi or rav’s pocket – his pocket and position will always prevail.
Pirkei Avot: (2:2)
“Raban Gamliel beno shel Rabi Yehuda HaNassi omer: yafeh talmud Torah im derech eretz, sheyegiat shenaihem mashkachat avon. Vechol Torah she’ein imah melacha sofa betailah ve’goreret avon. Vechol haoskim im hatzibbur yiheyu imahem leShem Shamayim……”
“Rabban Gamliel, the son of Rabi Yehuda HaNassi, said: It is good to combine Torah study with a worldly occupation, for working at them both drives sin from the mind. All Torah without an occupation will in the end fail and lead to sin. And let all who work for the community do so for the sake of Heaven………”
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